At 21 April 2015 we published for exclusion of Zoo.gr's well-known website. The exclusion of the popular website according to the Games Supervision and Control Committee was made for violating the gambling law.
Today Michalis Nafpliotis Chief Executive Officer of LazyLand AE, located behind Zoo.gr, informed iGuRu.gr about exactly what happened and that the website has been removed from the black list of the EU .P.
In the following text you will read some very interesting points.
Here is her announcement company:
In recent days, most of you, you would have noticed that access to Zoo.gr it was not possible, since there was a ban on connection with a decision of the Hellenic Concessionaire. (The Supervisory and Control Committee).
Let's start with the pleasant news:
1. By decision of the Commission, Zoo.gr is removed from the black list and re-admitted.
2. The access problem will slowly begin to recover and in a few days all providers will give free entry to your favorite Zoo.gr site.
3. For those who still have the problem and until it is restored, the address is: http://gr.lazyland.com/ from which you can connect without any problems.
How they all started
On Friday 17 / 4 / 15, we started receiving messages from some Zoo.gr users who were unable to access our site. The ban on access was imposed by the Committee on Supervision and Control of Gaming (HELLENIC REPUBLIC), διότι το site μας είχε συμπεριληφθεί σε κατάλογο (black list) της εν λόγω Αρχής που αφορά σε ιστότοπους που λειτουργούν χωρίς την απαιτούμενη με βάση την Ελληνική νομοθεσία permission. Για όσους δε γνωρίζουν, η HELLENIC REPUBLIC is an independent administrative authority which, as an activity, has the preparation and adoption of the envisaged regulatory legislation as well as the granting of the planned licenses and certifications of games (online or offline).
As was natural, we raised our blood on the head and we immediately mobilized as a company to see what was happening. What we were surprised to find out was that, with no briefing to our side, EEPC had issued 8 / 4 / 15 with the 6 version of the so-called black list, which included Zoo.gr . The total list you can find here. As you will see, it is a list of 463 websites from which 462 (except in our case) belongs to companies based outside Greece, most of which are unknown to some islands of tax havens. With even more detailed control, you will find that (with exceptions not exceeding the number of fingers of one hand), these are pure betting sites, which are obviously not licensed in Greece. Wrinkles, in other words, cases of illegality, among which, like the fly in milk, Zoo.gr opens.
The reaction of Zoo.gr
It's one of those moments when you raise your head, look at the ceiling focusing on the infinite and with as much composure as you have left monologues: "what happened to kids"? At the very moment when your listing Zoo.gr in this black list leads to fines and criminal persecutions, you begin to feel that you are losing any sense of humor.
Entering the commission site, we just confirmed the obvious: To get into the black list, your site should offer gambling and betting content. The definition of "gambling" in their site, is the one that applies to all countries of the civilized world: "Lucky games are defined as games for which the outcome depends at least in part on fate and give the player economic benefit." Something we do not do.
Of course, our reaction was immediate. On the same day (17 / 4), we are sending an urgent protest to the committee asking, among other things, for the following:
- our immediate written notice of the reason for joining this exclusion list
- to direct us to the relevant report that they are required to draw up and which will clearly state the type of offense we have committed.
- the our protest that their decision without our own hearing as they ought to have been based on the principles and rules of operation of the committee (such as that "the costs for regulators must be justified" and "the regulator should work with determination to solve the problems, while reducing the likelihood of side effects that may be caused by its decisions)
The Commission's reply
The Commission's response was indeed direct to Greek data. At 22 / 4 we receive their response along with the relevant report mentioned on our site. Then, from control at Zoo.gr, the controllers and the legal department of GREECE concluded the following conclusions:
A. Zoo.gr does not offer real money games but with virtual Zoo Coins. The Zoo Coins case does not fall under the gambling law of 2011, because it is explicitly required to seek financial gain from the player (he can take back money). Therefore, there is nothing wrong here.
B. But at the same time with 2011's law, there is also a presidential decree of 1947 (!), Which lays some games as lucky, regardless of whether they are played with real money or not. Based on the auditor's list, the suspect games were: poker, blackjack and biriba.
Before the bribe lovers all over, let's make it clear to you that for this game the check has proven that it is not included in the 1947 list. Now ... as far as poker lovers are concerned, they can fade away.
In summary, the committee decided that Zoo.gr has the following illegal content: poker & blackjack. Not because they fall under the Gambling Act 2011, but because the games in question fall under the list of the Royal Decree of 1947 on games of chance (which, exceptionally, are considered illegal in Greek territory, even if they are not played for real money).
Back to ... 1947
Indeed, the 1947 Presidential Decree lists a list of "gambling games" including poker and twenty-one (as well as various other cute games such as Tubucku, Harakiri, Tsogoli, Bourlotos, Halogenas, Tobolas , Squirrel, Ring, Karydakia, Boba, Perfume, Roulette Loukoumi, Tam Tam, Apollo 14, Hogza, Tychero Rabeli and others).
Beyond the plaque, stick to the following: the 1947 Presidential Decree is not about gambling. The issue is to categorize the games in a lucky or technical manner depending on whether their principle of operation involves more luck or skill elements of the player. Corresponding categorization exists in all countries of the world, English terminology is "games of chance" and "games of skill". This separation is indifferent / irrelevant to gambling (if the game is played with money or tricks), it has to do with the logical structure, the gameplay, of each game.
Exercises of Logic
Oh ... okay. Do not tell me you do not think I think ... "That is, the facebook that offers hundreds of poker games and blackjack is illegal"?
Yes!
In the Greek territory, based on this decision, facebook is illegal, as is the thousands of smartphone games played through iTunes (Apple) and Google Play (Google). As illegal there are thousands of foreign and dozens of Greek sites that offer poker games without real money. Also illicit seem to be children's toy stores selling for example table games such as Tombola (cute?).
As far as the above is concerned, it is difficult to accept legal arguments. Each case is dealt with separately, there is no equality of illegality, it is not obligatory for each committee to know what is going on out there, anyone can denounce something that has come to his notice.
Can anyone prove that the committee knows that facebook has illegal (in their opinion) content such as poker? The answer is yes. Write it on their site! In unit 'The games market' where they describe the types of games, they expressly state:
Also, in the gaming market, a new category of games called social gaming is being developed and provided. Social gaming is developed through social networking portals (e.g., Facebook). It includes a wide array of games consisting of arcade social games, role playing games and games of chance (such as poker, keno, etc.).
This reference, nominally on facebook.com, and that it contains games like "Poker" means that they know and explicitly accept this fact. On the other hand, Zoo.gr went black on the grounds that it offers poker without money. Although, from the first day of the committee's work to date, facebook.com is not on the black list, it can only be justified in two ways:
- Either accept the facebook legality and Zoo.gr was erroneously excluded.
- Either accept that facebook is illegal but for other reasons it does not fit into the blacklist.
In both cases there is a target of Zoo.gr.
It happens that we are not sprayed to believe in such conspiracy theories, nor do we shop for the suspicion that our great interests have fallen on it. Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the most satisfactory. And in our case, disarmingly dumb: the author of the texts of the WEBER website did not even know the existence of the Royal Decree of 1947! It is obvious not only by reference to the fact that facebook has poker, but also by the fact that in the definition of gambling on their site there is no information to exclude the games from the 1947 list from the general definition. Only one word can adequately describe the situation we found after all of this: misleading.
Hearing and role of the committee
Η Ε.Ε.Ε.Π. responded quickly for the second time quickly to the Greek data and received us for a hearing on 24/4. We have listed our opinions as more or less listed in this press release. Luckily for us, we did not meet bureaucrats, but people who listened carefully to our argument. As a sign of goodwill, we had already downloaded the content in question (poker and blackjack), although we have serious reservations about whether it is really illegal. We asked them one thing: to make a decision immediately, as 12 Greek families make bread from Zoo.gr.
Indeed, at 27 / 4 the decision had come out and we were notified the following day:
"We approve the deletion of LazyLand SA's www.zoo.gr from the list of non-licensed providers (Black List) of the company. without any other consequences for the company ".
It is worth mentioning in the grounds of the decision, paragraph 9:
'In the light of the above and of the company's allegations in the course of the hearing, the Commission accepts that the company has made a legal error in the conduct of gambling without a license and in view of the direct compliance of the company with the legality, removing the specific games from their site, proving in practice their repudiation and lack of deception. "
I want to note that it takes "a lot of pounds" for an independent commission to admit that its own failures have led our company to an error in law. And throughout the adventure we have experienced, something promising came out of this whole process: no bureaucracy and no procedural alibi can stand an obstacle if people in the public interest are willing to do so with flexibility and responsibility. That's why I want to thank him chairman and all members of the committee, as well as the head of the control department, Anastasios Fuskari, for their human behavior.
Lost in translation?
What will happen tomorrow, we do not know. It is obvious that the clergy fell upon us to let all Greece know that some things that are considered legitimate in all the civilized countries of the world here are questioned. By looking a bit at the laws and comparing them to what is happening in the US and the rest of the EU, we have seen an interesting diversification in Greek law, which may be the beginning of the error but also the key to a different interpretation in the future.
A. In international bibliography / legislation there is a separation of games in 2 categories depending on whether luck is involved as a factor in the process you are playing them. This separation of games is fundamental and irrelevant / indifferent to whether or not you are betting money during the game. In English, the terminology of these 2 categories is:
1. Games of Chance
2. Games of Skill
The corresponding translation into the Greek legislation and the WEBS site is:
1. Lucky Games
2. Technical-Entertainment Games
B. In the international literature / legislation when you play games of chance with real money for profit, the terminology is called "Gambling". The corresponding translation in the Greek legislation and on the site of EEEP is again "Gambling".
Therefore they use the SAME TERM for 2 different concepts (games of chance & gambling). After that, it's really hard to get out of the way.
Let's face it again
LazyLand is a Greek web and mobile game company that numbers 11 years of life. At a time when the concept of startups was unknown in Greece, our company creates the first Greek social networking site, which actually comes out in the air almost simultaneously with facebook (with 40 days difference) in April 2004. The first two years of operation, over 100 reports from local media to the innovation that Zoo.gr brings to the Greek Internet, make it one of the top sites in our home country.
The dynamics of the company are also reflected in the honors that have been honored over the years:
– Zoo.gr received the "Golden Ermis" at the Ermis Awards 2006, as the best Greek website in its category.
- The ZooTV Zoo.gr service earned the "Gold Hermes" at Ermis Awards 2007.
- Zoo.gr was voted by PC Magazine and T3 magazine readers as "Internet Service of the Year" at Tech Excellence 2008.
- The three founding members of Zoo.gr were awarded as "Young Entrepreneurs of the Year" by Stelios Hadjiioannou at the Club of 2009 of the Entrepreneurship Club.
- Our company is awarding the Golden Innovation Award at E-Volution Awards 2012.
- Zoo.gr distributes the "Design - Aesthetics" Praise to the E-Volution Awards 2012.
- Our company wins the gold "eGaming" Award at the E-Volution Awards 2013.
- Our game "Mahjong Duels" is placed on Top 5 Selected Projects at Game Connection 2013 Game Awards in Paris (between 87 international entries).
- LazyLand Chief Executive Officer is honored at e-Stories 2014 to create Zoo.gr.
- Our Pool Arena is awarding the Bronze Prize to the "Best Facebook App" at the Social Media Awards 2014.
- Our game "Oh My Ghost" is awarding the Golden Prize to the "Best Game App" category at the 2015 Apps Awards.
For the last 3,5 years, our company, with significant financial sacrifices, has been opening up abroad by launching Greek-produced web and mobile games on the international market. For this purpose, it publishes its games on platforms such as facebook, the AppStore, Google Play, the Amazon Store etc. as well as with international collaborations with local publishers around the world. For this purpose, last year alone, it went to 7 international exhibitions all over the world with its own stand (in all cases we were the only Greek company to present). As a result of all these efforts, our games are enjoyed by 14.000.000 users outside of Greece, a number that makes us by far the largest Greek company in its sector.
And of course, for companies like us, our only essential asset is the people of the company. We are proud of everyone and everyone working here and we are trying to stand up in a troubled country and in a competitive international environment. We do not feel like doing something heroic, we just try to do our job. And what we ask of the state is not help. There are obvious things like equality, non-distortion of competition, no obstacles, no trembling.
I want to give a heartfelt thank you to our legal department and all the people who work at LazyLand for the "run" they put in the last few days. Especially the support part of the company that stayed up all night for an entire week to serve the tens of thousands of emails and phone calls we received every day. And of course all the members of Zoo.gr for the incredibly touching interest and support they showed! The last adventure made us both stronger and more sensitive: to continue with more stubbornness and love what we do.
friendly,
Michalis Nafpliotis
CEO
LazyLand AE
ΥΓ. Why in the 47 presidential decree, poker is considered a lucky game while backgammon is considered a technical game? Philosophical question that we will try to answer the workers at Zoo.gr at our next excerpt for tsipouro! I think it's the ultimate vindication of the Greek teller, Mercury, who deeply believes that the dice does not count on the backgammon, but the lots are won by their value!
